Tiny Engines is a brand new label, but they already have a second fantastic 7" under their belts. The label was formed by Chuck Daley and Will Miller (both already working in the punk/indie scene as Beartrap PR) along with their co-conspirator, Jeff Meyers. Their first release, the Gasp Asp EP from Look Mexico came out earlier in the year on three beautiful shades of vinyl and foil-stamping on the cover. They’ve already sold out of the blue, so hurry over to get your copy of one of the remaining colors. Their second release, a new EP from the up-and-coming Tigers Jaw, comes out on August 18th and already available for pre-order. It comes on yellow or purple vinyl and the semi-opaque sleeve is awesome. I recently had a chance to talk to Chuck to find out how Tiny Engines got started and what keeps the label moving forward.
What inspired you to start Tiny Engines and to put out your releases on vinyl?
Insanity? Stupidity? Take your pick.
In all honestly, I never though I’d (co) start my own label. I had worked at an indie label for eight years and while it was a great experience, there are just so many obstacles to overcome in order to become even remotely successful. If anyone out there is thinking about forming their own label (especially one that is vinyl-exclusive) ask yourself this question, "Do I love losing fistfuls of money?" If the answer is yes, by all means, have at it. If the answer is no and you still want to start a label, prepare yourself for hours and hours of tireless, thankless work, as well as the distinct possibility that you’ll lose all your friends and alienate countless people in the music industry.
Seriously though, I joke (sort of). Ultimately, I think when the opportunity presented itself to work with Look Mexico in that capacity, it seemed like a terrific idea. I don’t have the ability to write songs or play an instrument, so a label is my way of contributing something positive to music, not to mention a means of helping bands I really love. More importantly, it gives me a creative outlet. My other company, Beartrap, does that in some ways as well – and I definitely treat my roster of clients like a family – but there’s still a distinct line between a PR company and a record label.
To tell the truth, it was always my partner’s (Will Miller) dream to start a label, but I think he was reluctant to go it alone and I was cautious about undertaking such a big project with Beartrap going strong and a new baby in the house. I guess it really was the opportunity to release Gasp Asp that was the catalyst for Tiny Engines.
I should also mention our third partner, Jeff Meyers. You’ll have to ask he and Will about their reasons for wanting to start a label. I can really only speak for myself.
What labels inspire what you do at Tiny Engines? Why?
You know, the standards: Dischord, No Idea, Jade Tree, Level Plane, Ebullition, Gravity, Art of the Underground, Magic Bullet, Kill Rock Stars, Plan-It-X, etc etc. We’re honestly not trying to change the world. We simply want to work with bands that we love and release their music all wrapped up in some sweet looking packaging.
I think that the formula for creating something really special with your label is fairly simple: awesome music + cool artwork + DIY ethics = something that at the end of the day, you can sit back and be extremely proud of what you’ve accomplished and know that you’ve helped out some truly deserving bands.
It’s funny because the notion of a "label" as we once knew it is quickly disappearing. Whereas five or ten years ago, you could legitimately start a DIY imprint and with a lot of hard work and dedication (and a touch of luck), run it as a full-time business. Labels like the ones I mentioned above managed to create something very special between the punk rock community and a group of bands that otherwise might not have had an opportunity to shine. While I fully support any band who is willing to release their own records, there’s something to be said for a label that consistently puts out quality stuff. In a way, they act as a filter, which is increasingly important in a world where anyone and everyone can record music on their computer and upload it to myspace.
Unfortunately, the era of full-time DIY/indie/punk rock labels is quickly disappearing. In its place we’re finding more and more small, hobby labels like Tiny Engines. That can be a good thing because you’ll discover a lot of dedicated people who are willing to go out on a limb and press a record for great, but relatively unknown and unproven bands. As long as these part time labels are doing everything they can to make their releases top notch, I think it’s a positive.
On the flip side, you also come across these kids with good intentions who want to release music but are ill equipped to do so, whether it’s time constraints or not having the patience to deal with all the crap involved with the business side of things. Most of the time, they end up starting something they can’t finish…and it’s the bands who pay for it in the end. That’s why I always tell the bands I work with that you should seriously consider the ramifications of letting your buddy down the street slap his logo on your music. If that’s all he’s going to do, you’re better off on your own.
Will the Tiny Engines catalog be vinyl-only or at least mostly vinyl?
Yes, it will be all vinyl. And digital, of course. CDs are dead.
We just like the aesthetics of vinyl and there are so many cool packaging options. Plus, there’s definitely something nostalgic and wonderful about the crackle of a needle being laid down on a sweet slab of wax, not to mention the warm, comforting sound of a record spinning at 33 1/3 revolutions per minute. It’s an entirely different listening experience than with anything else.
On a more practical side, it’s really tough to sell physical product these days; if you’re going to sink a ton of money into a record, you might as well make sure it’s got awesome packaging and press it in limited numbers. As for people who don’t care about physical product, that’s why we’ve got iTunes.
How does releasing vinyl compare to CD and digital releases in terms of both expense and effort?
Vinyl is so expensive. If anyone is reading this and you’re considering releasing a 7", don’t do it unless your ultimate goal is to maybe break even. Seriously – go get some quotes from a few manufacturing plants and do the math. It’s a losing battle.
Did you grow up buying mostly records, cassettes or CDs?
I grew up in a CD world. Hell, I probably still own close to 500 cds and I have no intention of selling them. Still, I made the switch to 100 percent vinyl about a year ago. It just made sense, especially since almost everyone includes a free mp3 download with their record now. I figured that for the most part, I was just ripping my cds to my computer and listening on my iPod, so if I was going to continue to buy physical product (and I am a person who believes that packaging and artwork is nearly as important as the actual music), I might as well buy something that is cool and limited.
I mostly listen to everything on my iPod, but I do take a couple hours every week to actually sit down and spin my vinyl records on the turntable. As I mentioned before, it’s an entirely unique listening experience and it reminds me that as great and convenient as the digital world is, it’s okay to sit back and enjoy something old school.
Do you find that vinyl appeals to an older or younger fan base or is age not a factor?
Age is becoming less of a factor, but I still think that vinyl is an older folks’ game. A band was recently telling me that some 16 year old kid came up to their merch table at a show, grabbed a copy of their latest 7" and literally said, "What is this?" He had no idea. Just imagining that scene playing out is so hilarious to me, but then again, why would some 16 year old kid who was fairly new to the scene know what a 7" was? He’s probably spent the last four or five years on file sharing sites and wasting his time on myspace. The happy ending to that story is that the kid actually bought the 7" because it contained a free mp3 download. Even though he may never actually listen to the vinyl, at least he knows what it is now. And there’s always the possibility that it’s his first in an eventual collection of hundreds.
Your first release, Look Mexico’s Gasp Asp, was originally released digitally on Lujo. How did it come about that you were able to issue it on vinyl?
That’s not exactly how it happened. The vinyl and digital versions of the record were supposed to be released at the same time. From the beginning, Gasp Asp was always a joint venture between both labels and the band. We just got held up with some manufacturing issues and the vinyl version came out after the digital. It was actually a good thing because the band was about to leave on a big tour. If they couldn’t have physical copies of the record, at least they could direct people to iTunes.
Did you feel like that filled a gap for fans? Do you think most people who bought the vinyl had already bought the digital download?
I honestly think that these are two entirely different groups of people and there is very little crossover. In other words, the fans who went to iTunes are the type of people who prefer digital releases. Maybe a few people who went the digital route first – because they couldn’t wait to hear the music – ended up buying the 7" as well.
Whatever the case, I really doubt that digital took away from vinyl sales, or vice versa. Check that – perhaps people who picked up a copy of the 7" didn’t buy it from iTunes because they were given a code for a free mp3 download. I guess in that respect, the digital side lost a few customers. But giving those vinyl customers the mp3s is the right thing to do. I mean, if you bought a cd, would you also buy the mp3s? Of course not; that’s ridiculous. You also need to remember that there were only 1000 copies of Gasp Asp pressed. Conversely, there is no limit to how many people can buy the digital version. If Look Mexico continues to exist as a band and release new music, people could be buying Gasp Asp from iTunes ten years down the road.
You pressed only 1000. Was that a practical limit or was the idea to appeal to all of us vinyl nerds who are head over heels for anything that says “limited edition?”
One of the cool things about vinyl is the collectibility of it. Of course, it’s not the main reason why you should be buying the 7", but there is something kind of special about holding a copy of Gasp Asp (let’s say the blue vinyl / silver foil version) and thinking to yourself "there are only 199 other people in the world who own this version of the record."
On one hand, you don’t want to exclude anyone. On the other hand, you hope to give the biggest fans of the band and the people who love collecting limited edition vinyl an opportunity to own something unique. I doubt we’ll repress this, but I can’t say that for sure. If the demand is great enough, who knows.
You did a great job with the 7”. The vinyl comes in great colors and the foil stamping is a great touch. Clearly, the package is important to you. Why?
I’ve touched on this before, but I just feel like artwork / packaging is almost as important as the music. It makes for a great overall presentation and adds an extra dimension to any release. These days it’s important to put a lot of extra effort into packaging because there are so few people who actually buy physical records any more. You need to give them a good reason to stick with the format.
Don’t get me wrong – I love my iPod and digital music has made life a lot easier for me, but I really dislike digital-only releases. I guess I should be happy with simply owning the music, but to me, an mp3 is nothing. It doesn’t exist in real life. It doesn’t give me any deeper insight into the band and it doesn’t give me a fuzzy warm feeling when I hold it in my hand (mainly because you can’t hold it in your hand).
In my eyes, when a label or band puts a ton of time, effort and money into artwork and packaging, there’s a greater sense that they really care about the music. It’s like they’re laying everything on the line to create some grand piece of art, even though they know that they might not sell every copy…and even if they do, they probably won’t make any money from it. That means so much more to me than say, a band who records a couple rough tracks on their macbook with GarageBand and offers it for free on their myspace page. Gee wiz – way to go out on a limb, dude.
How have they been selling?
Fairly well. We’ve sold out of the blue and we’re close to selling out of the white. Vinyl Collective has gone through a bunch and so has the band. I think that maybe I have 250 copies of the green vinyl left, but that’s it. Unfortunately, Look Mexico hasn’t toured much on this release; they’ve been writing new songs for the upcoming album on Suburban Home. It’s just the way it worked out, but I think when they do resume their heavy touring schedule, we’ll blow through the rest. And if not, it’s cool. We’ve got all the time in the world.
What’s coming up next?
As of right now, we’ve got an terrific 7" in production for an amazing Scranton, PA band called Tigers Jaw. Check them out at www.myspace.com/tigersjaw or go to www.tinyengines.net. Both Will and I really loved their 2008
