2006 is a coming of age year for Les Claypool. For decades the “Renaissance Man”has been working on his magni opi: his book (coming forth from a screenplay), South of the Pumphouse, his movie/mockumentary, Electric Apricot: the Quest for Festeroo, and his recently-released, deeply personal album, Of Whales and Woe. He plays most of the instruments on each track, so in essence this disc is pure Claypool. On top of all that, the man is currently touring the country in support of his latest, Of Whales and Woe with Skerik, Mike Dillon, and Gabby La La. Somewhere in there, he even found a moment to perform with Trey Anastasio and Stewart Copeland as Oysterhead at last weekend’s Bonnaroo festival and will perform at least one date this year with his longest-running band, Primus. Needless to say, Claypool is a busy guy.
Of Whales and Woe is an outpouring from the core Claypool. Not only does the disc exude constant Claypool, there are also various elements included that harken back to his musical influences. We get a generous unfolding of different aspects of Les throughout the record, from political outcries to love of family, from a wacky cartoon theme song (“Robot Chicken”) to emphasis on the sound of his bass.
In the midst of all that, Glide’s Sarah Moore caught up with Les for an in-depth look into all things Claypool.
Of Whales and Woe lists only your name. Does this make it more personal to you?
I’ve been telling people that this is my megalomania record. I play almost everything on it, except I brought Skerik in on sax, and Gabby La La on sitar and theremin. Mike Dillon plays marimba, vibraphone and various percussion.
Your children are also on the record aren’t they?
Yes, the children make an appearance.
How old are they?
My son is 10 my daughter is 8.
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They even contributed to the album cover artwork. Is this the first time you’ve had them work on things with you?
Um, they kinda pop on here and there. I know there’s an old Primus track that has my kids in the background, you can hear them running around. And “D’s Diner” on the Purple Onion record, there’s a dialogue by my kids. You know, my studio’s at my house, so you hear dogs barking and phones ringing and all kinds of stuff if you listen closely.
I was going to ask about your Rancho Relaxo. What’s the coolest part about it besides your studio?
My tractor. This time of year I should be out there everyday. I should get out there today before I go on the road.
You have a lot going on right now, to put it lightly. How do you put yourself in each of these projects without spreading yourself too thin?
I am spread too thin. I’m all over the place. I have a list of things that I need to tie up and do. We were supposed to be doing Primus stuff this year, but it didn’t come together because I had all these other things going so I figured I can’t put this stuff on hold. I’m moving forward, so Primus will be maybe next year. It just happens that these things came together at once. I’d been picking away at the record for a couple years in between various projects. And the film we did last summer. And the book started off as a 60-page screenplay that I wrote ten years ago.
Obviously whatever method you’re using works. What have you been listening to lately?
I’ve been listening to Oysterhead because I’ve had to relearn the band’s songs.
Is there talk of a new Oysterhead record?
There’s a lot of talk, but nothing’s written on my calendar.
How did you end up meeting and working with Skerik?
One of his bands opened the very first Oysterhead show. I just thought, well this guy’s kinda interesting. I invited him to play on the very first Frog Brigade show, and I haven’t been able to shake him since. He’s like a puppy.
What basses do you use on the album?
It’s pretty much my old four-string, the one I’ve had for years. I use the upright on one song, and my six-string on one. Pretty much the old standard, the old soldier, the old warhorse. This record is in your face: drums, bass, and weirdness around it, but much more in your face than I’ve ever done. It’s supposed to make you move your butt around.
Do you have any advice for aspiring bassists?
My advice is just to play. Young players – and I did the same thing – will come to me and want to know what the secret is or the magic button to push. Everybody looks for shortcuts. If you take shortcuts, your career is going to be short. Play with as many people as often as you possibly can, because that’s the only way you’ll get good. You might be able to play all kinds of crazy licks, but if you don’t have that salt….it’s like the ability to have a good conversation. You know all the words, but you’re a horrible conversationalist, and that’s what playing music is – it’s having a conversation with a lot of people, being able to hold your own – and that comes from experience. I very much relate playing to having a conversation. I think the more experience you have communicating with people, the better conversationalist you are and that comes from experience; I call it salt, you gotta get your salt. A lot of young players can play their asses off, but they don’t have that salt, so it doesn’t seem genuine.
I try to think of it as spit and vinegar, but that’s a southern thing.
That sounds sort of gross.
Colonel Bruce Hampton once said that the thing wrong with rock and roll today is that there’s not enough evil in it. Would you agree?
I agree with what I think he’s saying. When rock and roll came along it was a rebellious term. But it’s been homogenized over the years and convoluted and doesn’t represent what it once did, which was rebellion. I think that’s what he’s saying. There’s not enough grit to it. There’s not enough dirt under the fingernails.
That makes sense; it’s all become the same thing.
That’s the way things are. You know, when “new wave” came out it was the new wave, but then it became the popular thing, a handle for pop culture at that time. When Primus was first emerging at that time with bands like the Chili Peppers, Nirvana, Faith No More, and Pearl Jam, this term “alternative” was being tossed around. We were the alternative to what was popular at the time, which was the hairball bands: the Cinderellas, Guns and Roses, and all those; we were the alternative to that. Then all of a sudden, these bands got very popular and alternative became another catchphrase for what became popular, pop music. It’s just the way it is. I always laughed at the term “punk pop” or whatever the hell it is. To me that is the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever heard. Like black-white. That’s a blacker shade of white. What the hell does that mean? Punk was total rebellion. Well now punk is not total rebellion. I can turn on Nickelodeon and see a Honeycombs commercial and they’re playing music that’s supposed to be punk. It doesn’t mean what it did in 1979. Times change, and it used to be incredibly rebellious to have a tattoo, and it’s not anymore. It’s very passe, very trendy.
Yeah, the new tattoo is the no tattoo. So do you think all terms are eventually like that? Does it make it pointless to even talk about it?
There are things that will never catch on. As long as there’s something going on in the peripheral, you know, some sort of counter culture, we’re all going to be safe. There’s gotta be a yin for the yang, a ping for the pong, it’s what keeps the scale balanced. It’s what keeps things interesting. If we all plodded along watching American Idol we’d be screwed. Historically, the pendulum is swinging left to right, from left representing more liberal notions and the right representing more conservative notions. Well the pendulum has shifted way to the right and it’s been that way for several years, and hopefully that pendulum is swinging back to the left. That would be a noble thought. I believe it’s true. I think it’s just the nature of existence. Fashions come and fashions go, ideals come and ideals go, perceptions and perspectives change, I mean on a grand scale. I think for the past ten, twelve years we’ve been living in a very conservative environment. I think the pendulum’s been at the right for awhile, [and it will] slowly shift back to the left.
For every action there’s an equal and opposite reaction.
Like the yin and the yang. There are tons of these metaphors we can use. Good, evil, black, white, it just depends on your perspective. A few months ago we had a peace rally or gathering at the park near where I live protesting the war. I went down there, and I brought my kids with me, and I was very surprised that the majority of the people were as old or older than myself. I saw maybe a handful of teenagers, if that, hardly any people under the age of 30. And it was disturbing, because that’s the generation that’s paying the physical price believing in dying over this thing. What’s it going to take for these people to show up in mass to voice concern, I’m just curious. Maybe the pendulum hasn’t shifted to that point yet, but at what point will the generation who will have to deal with this, when are they going to stand up? Right now it’s all these old timers who stood up in the late 60’s and early 70’s who are standing up again. Natural reaction.
I think people think things won’t affect them. It will affect everyone but not them, it’s just not real.
That’s unfortunate, because the generation that did learn from this – that was affected by it last time – are the ones that are standing up at this point. Maybe it’s a reflection of this education system and society that these history lessons haven’t been passed on to this generation. You’re supposed to learn from history.
Sorry to lead you so off-topic. Do you have any particular musicians you consider to be heroes?
I have several musicians I consider to be heroes, and I’ve been extraordinarily fortunate enough to befriend and play with a lot of these people. Stewart Copeland is one of my biggest influences, and he’s one of my best friends and I’m in a band with him… it’s incredible. And Bernie Worrell is one of the most amazing, if not the most amazing, musician I’ve ever played with. He’s incredible. He has that salt. He’s played with everybody and he’s played every day of his life for, you know, however many years. Decades. Many decades. It’s incredible playing with people like that. Like Tom Waits. These are the people that I look up to but also look to as my friends, as good people. That’s a wonderful feeling.
I heard your “Great Albums” interview with mp3.com where you mentioned Tom Waits’ Blood Money. Are there any recent albums that you think sort of reflect the sound of today?
I don’t really know what the sound of today is. You know, my manager manages a couple of these new bands. When I’m put on hold I hear some of this stuff and I feel like I’m watching Nickelodeon. I’ve always been one of those guys….obviously, I mean look at my career, I’m the guy who likes the stuff that most people don’t pay attention to. I think my career reflects that…my output reflects that. One of my favorite bands to come about in the past 10-15 years was Morphine. Mark Sandman and I were becoming friends before he died. Obviously that’s not new, contemporary. I don’t know what the sound of today is. What is the sound of today? You talk about emo and screamo; I haven’t been paying attention. I don’t search things out anymore, things just sort of fall my way. I like Gogol Bordello.
Do you have any new prodigies that you have your eye on and would like to put under your musical wing?
Well Gabby La La was the last person I put under my musical wing, and it’s been an expensive endeavor, but I love Gabby and she’s an incredible talent. She’s in my band. I work with her because I enjoy her company and I enjoy her creative force. She’s amazing, she should be a superstar. She should be out there influencing young people because she’s an incredible musician; she’s somebody that I’d like my kids to be influenced by, as opposed to someone being influenced by someone who became famous because a video of them having sex with someone was distributed on the internet. You know what I mean? I’d rather my kids be influenced by someone with actual talent, major talent, original talent. Not some derivative crap.
It seems like that kind of stuff will always be in the mainstream, but your kids will go and seek out the real meat and good stuff.
Every now and then, like Primus, there’s one of those bands who get to be in the mainstream on the peripheral for awhile. We were the band that was not supposed to be there. We were the guys that weren’t supposed to be there. You look at someone like Bjork. She’s very creative; she’s in that mainsteam and has that type of success. It’s very original, there’s a signature sound to it. Every now and again something like that pops up. Those are the people that give me hope.
